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"Palestinians are just the canvas upon which the Jewish psychodrama takes place." Simone Zimmerman, co-founder of IfNotNow and subject of the documentary Israelism, joins UNAPOLOGETIC to examine how Israel's genocide in Gaza has reshaped Jewish identity and politics. Simone traces her own journey from committed Zionist to anti-Zionist activist, describing the personal and communal ruptures that followed. She argues that the decades-long fusion of Zionism with Judaism has been a catastrophe for Jewish life globally, and that Israel's genocide has made liberal Zionism untenable. The conversation also tackles the growing anti-Israel voices within MAGA - and why, despite tactical overlaps on ending military aid, figures like Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens represent a fundamentally different and dangerous political project that the pro-Palestinian movement should not mistake for solidarity. Drawing on Palestinian writer Tariq Baconi, Zimmerman makes a stark argument: that for too much of the Jewish establishment, "Palestinians are just the canvas upon which the Jewish psychodrama takes place." UNAPOLOGETIC is hosted by Ashfaaq Carim. Chapters 00:00 Intro 02:04 Israelism Goes Global 12:26 Growing Up Zionist 17:00 The Flag 27:35 The Liberal Zionism Trap 38:32 Exiled From Your Community 49:18 Young Jews Radicalised 1:06:36 Tucker Is Not an Ally 1:19:35 Democrats and Palestine 1:26:29 On Palestinian Resistance 1:32:24 Fusing Zionism With Judaism Support stories that matter. Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR0fZh5SBxxMNYdg0VzRFkg/join Catch previous episodes of MEE LIVE, our biweekly news programme exploring the stories shaping our world through breaking coverage, expert analysis, and hard-hitting interviews. Originally airing Tuesdays & Thursdays at 12pm ET | 5pm BST Got a story tip or question? Reach us at MEELive@middleeasteye.org Subscribe to our channel: http://ow.ly/AVlW30n1OWH Subscribe to MEE Telegram channel to stay up to date: https://t.me/MiddleEastEye_TG Middle East Eye Website: https://middleeasteye.net Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@middleeasteye Follow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/MiddleEastEye Like us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/MiddleEastEye Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye